Etiquette – This will help you get a job!

Some good stuff here. In the comments section of a previous article (I forget which one), there was some discussion about being careful not to associate your real name with anything that you wouldn't want a potential or current employer to see, even beyond MySpace and Facebook. Not every employer is particularly tech-savvy, but don't kid yourself: most are certainly savvy enough to open up Google and to type your first and last name in quotes, and to see what comes up. Plus, GenX is moving up into management and making hiring decisions now, and they are a pretty tech-savvy bunch.

The bottom line as I see it is that, when it comes to employment searches, it is not All About You, no matter what your parents and teachers have been telling you for the past 20 years. If you aren't willing to believe that, then do yourself a favor and at least pretend. Mark calls it "etiquette"; I'd call it "simple consideration" and "making it easy for someone to hire you."

The background dial-tone for my cell is Castles Made of Sand by Hendrix. I've actually had a recruiter compliment me on my pick. Now I wonder what they were really thinking. Either way, it's certainly not as annoying as Blondie can be.

Anyway, I'm going to opt to keep it. My voicemail is done professionally and if a recruiter isn't down with a little Hendrix, sounds like a place I don't want to work anyway.

Thanks again for the post Mark!

I agree, some good stuff here, although it's should be common sense. If you're want to be hired for a professional job, you should be professional?!

I was in charge of hiring (as a student) newer students in my former tech role at the school I worked for. Obviously a different environment, but I checked Facebook just as a curiosity. I never used it in hiring decisions, but I was usually more surprised when a student applying didn't have a profile.

That said, I think the issue is overblown. I don't have a Myspace page because I can't stand the website. I refuse use more bandwidth on it. I laugh knowing that recruiters probably went there first to check me out, and finding nothing. What a waste of their time. But I do have a fairly lively Facebook page, and I don't secure or hide it from anyone. There were a few pictures I untagged, but all in all, there's a ton of stuff there that my employer might not care to see. But if they go looking, they should be prepared for it.

If you want to talk professionalism, let's talk about what employers are looking for when they go to a personal profile/blog. Do you give your potential employer a tour through your house? Do you take them to a social event on the weekend before they hire you? No? Then why should they care what's on your social page, as long as there is nothing illegal or that shines a bad light on your employer? They shouldn't. And any employer that took a look at some of the things I do socially and for my own entertainment and didn't hire me, thank you. You saved me the trouble and time saved by not wasting my time on an interview and the process when I didn't want to work for you.

Obviously you're not going to come into the office Monday morning and start talking in your morning meeting about some story you thought up while completely wasted Friday night. You might not do that on your Facebook page either. But to imply that they're one in the same is really reaching. But if you're really paranoid, just secure your profile. Take some precautions and only let friends see you. Obviously I've had this debate before, and it just seems like all bark/no bite from employers. But hey, if you want to see my apartment I'd be more than happy…

It sounds like this recruiter doesn't want his future employees to be themselves. I'd much rather see what I'm getting than have people put up fronts that I will soon find out were just that. If I was a job seeker and got turned down for a job because I had a creative voice mail message, facebook profile, or had things going on in my life that made calling back right away unrealistic, I'd be glad that company eliminated me from consideration. I wouldn't want to work for them. Young people are in the driver's seat, and employers need to learn to accept them for who they are and encourage honesty over phoniness. I'm all for etiquette, and if someone is rude or inconsiderate, that seems to me as a great reason not to hire them, but these are just quirks in this post. Nothing that will keep anyone from doing great work. You're really just limiting your talent pool.

And what about etiquette for recruiters? Quicker responses to applications. Calling back when you say you will regardless of whether you want to hire the person or not. Giving people to have personality. Being up front about the process and letting people know where it's going and what will happen next. Not shooting rubber bands at co-workers during phone interviews (I worked in an office with a recruiter who did this to me).

The War for Talent has changed things, and I think the recruiters who hold attitudes like these are going to lose out.

Sadly sometimes the most obviously, "common sense" stuff is neglected by mostly everyone.

I have had a friends whose voicemail used to say, "Hey! … hello? … hello?! … Haha, just kidding. Leave me a message!" I loved this girl like my sister, but after 4 rings I would hang up. I hated that message. If I was someone looking to hire her I would be so annoyed I wouldn't even offer the job.

The other nice thing about gmail is that you can usually use your name. In my opinion that makes it infinitely easier to rememeber than lastname.k or lastname.ka or lastname.kat at whatever university.

I've never had a call back ring but when I call people that do I usually get so involved singing to myself that I forget (momentarily) who I called and why.

Thanks for the advice! Never hurts to hear it again

While I admire the sentiments of several optimistic posters who won't give up their ring tones or censor their Facebook pages for any price, I'm not sure how lasting that perspective will be. At some point you may find yourself needing a job (not seeking a job, not thinking about a job, and not changing jobs, but needing a job). At that point, I hope you'll reconsider Mark's advice, which seems to be directed at people who are applying for positions they'd actually like to take with companies for whom they'd actually like to work.

"The War for Talent" that Willy mentions is real, but it's temporary (or at least cyclical, just like anything else), and it hasn't actually leveled the playing field. There are still talented folks who will find employment, and talented folks who will not.

@Willy: "And what about etiquette for recruiters?" That, on the other hand, is a very good question. Thank you for bringing it up.

Those that argue that they would not want to work in a place if the recruiter looked at a Facebook or are offended by voice mail greetings are missing the point:

The recruiter is trying to get YOU hired by a company. By having these "no-no's" in the article, YOU are not getting a CHOICE about whether to work somewhere or not, you're being unilaterally eliminated by someone else.

A recruiter is paid to find talent that will reflect well on the recruiter — it is their paid profession. So part of your job search is understanding the audience: recruiters, human resource departments, potential peers, and hiring managers. Each audience has real opinions about all sorts of things one can never know.

The objective for a person looking for a job is to get the interview so that you can be in the position to choose whether or not to take a position. How can you evaluate a position in a company unless you get to interview with a hiring manager in one?

That's the objective: get the interview, get an offer, and then decide if the position, company, and all the other things are right so that YOU get the choice to work at a position. Not to be eliminated along the way because you had Blondie on your voice mail.

For the most part, I like his advice. Sometimes it's the little things that set you apart from the crowd.

Remember, the company is thinking: is this the kind of person I want representing my company? Being polite and professional can go a long way for you. He's not suggesting that anyone sell their soul or remove their personality from their messages. He's just saying that taking care of the little things can go a long way for you.

I don't want to sound like I'm not part of my generation or anything, but give up the cell phone background ringtones, especially when looking for a job. Otherwise, don't give them your cell phone number.

You like Blondie? Big deal. I don't remember seeing a box on my last job application for "Preferred musical genre". This isn't MySpace, where you think everyone cares about how great your taste in movies is. Your affinity for funny call tones won't get you a job, but it sure will keep you from getting one. If I was hiring, I wouldn't hire someone who's not willing to temporarily change their habits to appear professional. Who's to say that's not how you'll be on the job? What if I hire you and you choose to indulge your passion for "Yo Mama" jokes at the next conference call? Would you call that "changing your personality"? No, it's putting a business filter over your life.

You can let your "personality" show once you get the job. I play Spoon, Johnny Cash and Built to Spill at my desk. I make my coffee in a French press and field questions about the "contraption". I wear slightly more stylish, up-to-date business clothes that tend to the indie side than my colleagues. BUT FIRST I LANDED THE JOB.

If it's worth it to you, you'll take the advice of the guy who's hiring for the best entry-level company in the U.S.

Those that argue that they would not want to work in a place if the recruiter looked at a Facebook or are offended by voice mail greetings are missing the point:

@Scot – Why would I want to waste my time with a company that I know I wont take a job in? The goal as I see it, or saw it, was to get a job. Getting the interview was a means to an end, it wasn't the goal. If my potential employer was scared off by the fact that I'm in a facebook group "I've been sprayed in the face with pepper spray…willingly" then I probably don't want to interview for them if I'm not going to like the end result. Sometimes self elimination is the best thing for everyone involved.

Which brings me to my next point, the more I read these (a couple times today) the less sympathy I have for those who don't already get it. At what point is the threshold for self selection so low that you don't worry about giving them advice? If you have an obnoxious ringback tone, you've just done HR a favor. If you have a MySpace page that is less "for fun" and looks like something created by someone who's been locked in juvenile hall for the last couple years, you're just helping the employer out. These aren't bad things, but they just bring up the topic of what should be defined as the threshold. Maybe my recruiter doesn't like Radiohead, I do. Does he hold that against me more or less than pictures taken at a bar?

I see these as much more important than "I'm looking at your facebook profile!!!!" We all know the risks of allowing universal access to information we put online, how about telling us what you care about.

"We all know the risks of allowing universal access to information we put online"

I guess that's just it: not everyone does know those risks, hence Mark's article describing them. As Danielle points out, common sense is not always so common. I'm sure plenty of people are presenting themselves poorly and don't realize it.

Sean (your second comment) and Holly: Really well said. Look, I hire all the time — for a really cool company that by no means is uptight — and I do pay attention to this stuff. It's because when you're hiring someone, you get a very limited window into what they're actually like, and so all available information becomes important. If I've worked with you for years and know you're great, I'm going to think it's an minor quirk that you make me sit through some crap music while I wait for your voicemail to pick up. But if I don't know you and have only your resume and cover letter to judge you by, other details are going to take on more prominence. And it's just not worth the risk to hire someone who doesn't display a solid understanding of what is and isn't considered professional — because it signals you might need a lot of handholding to adjust to the professional world, and I don't have time for it.

Believe me, I understand the mindset that says "if you're going to judge me for that, I wouldn't work to work for you anyway." And occasionally there's something to that — but not when we're talking about basic, commonly accepted standards of professionalism, like a professional, concise voicemail message or not having a myspace page showing you and a giant bong. Or what if the company has a really uptight HR director who you have to get past but everyone you'd actually be working with is more your style? It just doesn't make sense to screen yourself out for trivial reasons that are so easily addressed.

Thanks, all, for weighing in. Please remember when I leave a post all I am trying to do is make is easier for you to get a job.

I'm the classic "screw this up until I get it right" person. I'm also the classic "I broke the mold and I don't want to be like anyone else" person. That said, employers didn't have to buy into my schtick, I had to buy into theirs because they had the jobs and I needed one.

Did I sell out? I don't think I ever did. Did they make the rules? ALWAYS! I think that I am the least convention recruiter in the world. I really don't care that Blondie was playing. If I had my druthers, I'd have the Who playing, "Mama's got a squeeze box" or "Who are you"? But, it would keep me from getting the job that I wanted.

There is an old saying that is "don't shoot the messenger". I'll always be glad to share what you might face so you don't have to be 53 years old and say, "OOOOOPPPPS". Bad choice!

One more note. The recruiter that you are talking to may NOT represent the true spirit of the company. Some are great. Some suck. Some are doing it for the money. Some for the passion. Do you know which is which? No. Not any more than we know who is good when we are getting a resume. You might get 300 resumes and you spend 30 seconds looking at each one.

Personally, I don't care if you didn't graduate or if you were a freshman for 7 years of your college career. Yet, I've talked to others who couldn't get in the door because of the school they attended.

I don't care what your Facebook or Myspace says. I won't go look at it. Don't have time. And, I really don't care. Others do. Others are anal. Others are looking for reasons NOT to hire.

Keep writing. Keep thinking.

By the way, Ryan. I think the Star Spangled Banner from Woodstock is better than Castles Made of Sand. I like it better than Purple Haze. And you, sir, are a classic entrepreneur. You make the world better because you choose to!

Valpak Mark

Here's my experience – what a blast…..

http://www.hrcapitalist.com/2007/08/press-1-to-elim.html

Kris

Hey all, professionalism starts when you APPLY for the job.

If you have a pop tune playing in the background on your answering machine, your future employer is going to wonder if you are going to do this on your work voicemail.

If you have embarrassing pictures on a Facebook page with your real name, your future employer is going to wonder what his clients think when they Google your name after meeting you.

If you answer your phone unprofessionally, your future employer is going to wonder how you are going to answer the phone at work.

It's your time to show them how you are going to act on the job.

What are you going to do?

Hey Mark,

Thanks for the advice, though, I have a suggestion for recruiters.

If we call you to check up on the status of our application we are not being a pest, but being proactive. Too many times my friends have been left out to dry by recruiters who are "too busy" to call them back. That may be the truth, but it's a two way street. We, just like you, want to feel as though we are a priority and not just another number in the system.

Overall I loved your advice, and if I wasn't so cheap I might have a ring back tone, but those damn $2.99 songs add up after a months use.

@Willy:

I suppose I fall into the "GenX" category, and as a Project Manager, here's how my routine day is like: I receive between 150 – 200 emails everyday. I do not have to respond to all, but I have to open each to decide whether I have to respond to it. The longest stretch of time I am between phone calls is about 30 mins. I have to attend at least 3 meetings every day. And in between all this, squeeze in the work I have to do.

Taking this into context, if I hear an unprofessional message when I call a prospective candidate (I do have to quite frequently), it would absolutely p… me off. I might be less stressed on that particular day and patiently hear it out. But as a job-seeker, would you be prepared to take that chance?

@Nathan:

I would strongly disagree. The first company you work with launches your career. Even if it's something you do not enjoy, a big name can do wonders when you look for your next job.

[...] Public relations students at Kent State University have been told time and time again to not post compromising photos of themselves. In fact, I received an e-mail from my professor just the other day with an example of bad Facebook etiquette. [...]

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This is not bad advice, unlike a lot I have come across.

Is there a way to become a content writer for the site?