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Ryan Paugh graduated from Penn State in 2006 with a Bachelor's Degree in Journalism and a minor in Business. After working in corporate communications, freelance writing and reporting, he co-founded 
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SELL! SELL! SELL! That’s all I hear lately from the career advice experts. You want to make it in the grownup world? You better figure out what you’re all about and preach it loud.
Dear advisors, please write this down: Your hearts are in the right place, but you’re driving me off the deep end! I’m 23-years-old, I have no idea what I want and I’m not ready to sell my soul for a job I’ll most likely hate in six months.
So what about the millions of other twenty-somethings that didn’t graduate college knowing who they wanted to be? Where’s our lifeline? The majority of us are going to take a first job with the sole purpose of putting some bread in the bank. Do we still follow the “sell yourself” mentality in an interview? I’ll tell you right now, it’ll be a hell of a performance, but it sure won’t be me telling an employer who I really am.
The problem with telling young people to sell themselves is that most of us don’t have much to sell – we lack experience. If you put us in the hot seat and tell us we have to have a vision and a concrete mission statement, we’re going to spew BS like it’s a congressional hearing. Is that what employers really want?
Maybe I’m wrong, but I’m going to make the presumption that an average person (at any age) creates a tiny bit of fantasy when placed in first-round dialogue with a potential employer. What do you think happens to a person like me? My only defense mechanism is to conjure up something I think you want to hear. Not exactly the most honest approach, but what do you expect? I’m trying to make a living.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to be completely honest with you. I feel like scum when I walk out of an interview knowing I’ve sold myself out because my real answers wouldn’t have made the cut. But a guy like me can’t be that moral in the corporate world. The “sell yourself” mentality and the hard-hitting questions that go along with it just won’t let me.
The worst query ever posed: “Where do you see yourself ten years from now?”
Employers, next time you ask this question, think about what you would’ve said. If you really, honestly knew – congratulations! But if you’re anything like me, you’ll realize that the answer you’re getting is probably a heap of bologna.
One thing the experts always fail to mention – selling yourself is a dirty business.
You could end up selling yourself out.
Popularity: 12%
Yeah, I agree.
I feel that job interview is more like a quiz. You have to answer by the book! If you too honest, most likely you’ll fail. Although the interveiwer know that its not a honest answer, it doesn’t matter as long its an answer he/she expected.
I just don’t feel it right. Well who does?
I read the NYTimes article that mentioned this site today, so this is my first visit to your site. I think it’s a great site where you can just spout off frustrations, etc. But there’s an entitlement vibe…
I’m Gen X. You sound just like me when I was 22. Each generation thinks they are unique. But we are all quite similar at that age. Instead of Ipods, they told us to take off our CD headphones, same difference.
You are just running into business minded folks that are expecting you to know your ‘career track’ when you don’t. And you likely won’t until you hit late 20s/early 30s. And then you’ll go to grad school if you haven’t already.
Words of advice: do not go to grad school and get student loans until you have figured out your career track, or you will waste thousands of $$! Until then, ‘find yourself’.
When I became a manager, and had to deal with 20+ who were late, didn’t make deadlines, and then didn’t take my asking them to do so seriously, I fired them. That is what will happen unless there’s a REAL shortage for what you do (like your technical contact for example). You’ll probably slide by somewhere with your ‘I’m fabulous and I DESERVE this’ attitude, but in the real world…..
You’ll realize if you want the $$, you have to be in management or own your own biz, and if you have to depend on flakey people, that affects your own job/$$, and you just won’t tolerate other people’s slack-ass behavior.
Believe me, no one has to put up with entry-level people’s bull#$%^. Ipods and bellyrings are no biggie, but this ‘I’m interviewing the company also’ — not so in many cases. Mostly that’s for people more senior or who are really in demand. If someone had that sort of attitude coming into my office for an interview, I’d see that as a red flag that they’d be the biggest pain in my ass.
Wow, where was this website when I was a miserable cubicle dweller?? I spent four years in various circles of employment hell before getting out and starting my own business. Congrats for figuring it out a couple years earlier than I did.
This post is a very honest response to a seriously devious practice. As young employees, we crave jobs where we can bring our whole selves to work…and I doubt you’ll find it at a company that hired you because you sold yourself harder than others. Not to mention, most of us are just not natural salespeople. True, it’s a skill you can learn, but unless it’s in our genes, we don’t have it right out of the college womb.
Corporate America is missing out on a lot of talent if this is what it expects from its young graduates.
I think we have more experience to sell than not. We do so much after all. And the selling part of it is just figuring out how to frame our experience, whether it’s president of a student organization, or picking up the pieces of our failed first job, to make it worthwhile for ourselves, and for our future employers.
Also, it’s not uncommon to feel like an impostor in your first interviews or especially in your first job. But then you get over it. So do that as soon as possible. Have your first round of interviews, get your first job, and then move on to the next as soon as you can. Because then you’ve done it, you have your experience, and you can do ten times better the next time.
This is an employer’s worst nightmare when he get s a candidate who oversells him/herself and then cannot perform on the job. We deal everyday with employers and recruiters who constantly complain that there is a real lack of any talent out there. My response to that is maybe they are not asking the right questions!
I love the fact you pointed out of twisting the question of where you see yourself in 10 years to the person giving the interview. If someone in their twenties really has it all figured out and can foresee their future in 10 years, then good for them, but for the rest of us, it’s a challenge to foresee where we see ourselves over the weekend.
I don’t think we should have to oversell ourselves as job seekers and at the same time employers shouldn’t oversell themselves either. It’s a catch-22 for young people entering the work force.
Hi Rebecca:
Thanks for your insight. I think this is great advice for people who have a solid plan in mind, but what about the people who don’t?
My failed first job is not necessarily going to make me more qualified for my second job. If I didn’t care for that first job I might completely change paths and move into a different field…back to square one.
So for someone like me, interviews still have that “imposter” feel. I still don’t know exactly what I want, and when push comes to shove, that’s the opposite of what employers want to hear. So, I begin to act like someone I’m not and hope they buy it.
What’s a guy like me to do? There’s no easy answer. But like Jen points out above, corporate america is missing out on some great talent if then expect their young workers to know exactly what they want in a job. It’s just not that easy for all of us.
-Paugh
Xgirl,
I’m glad you like the site, but if you read a little farther into it, you will notice this site is about much more than spouting frustrations.
I understand that all 20 somethings are rebellious despite generations, but why do older folks always need to point out that they were just like us and this is nothing new? The fact is, maybe you felt the same way, but you settled for the status quo. This does not mean we will. Our voices are already being heard, as proof from you finding this site through the NY Times. I’m glad you felt this way at 23, and I’m sorry you never did anything about it. Maybe we will.
As an HR person and boomer I am suprised by the responses to selling yourself during an interview. This does not mean to
put on a ‘dog and pony show’, if you didn’t have something the employer wanted why would the employer have wanted to interview you? Even for those of you who don’t know where you are finally going to end up, it is your attitude we are looking for. Are you dependable, inquizative, can you work without direct supervision, can you identify problems and understand how to solve them? These are the qualities employers are seeking.
Everyone above seems so short-sighted. Everything you do will broaden your outlook and talents–if nothing else than lead you to knowing what you ‘don’t want to do’; which can be a hugh blessing!
Haha. This brings back memories! I hate the 10 year question. What are the chances of getting hired if I said: “I see myself working for XYZ Corp 2 years, paying off my student loans, then quiting to work on my own businesses” ?
Most likely scenario: Defaulting on my student loans and asking mom what’s for breakfast.
Hi Cynthia:
Being the HR person that you are, I’m surprised that you’re surprised. I’ve been on a lot of interviews (A LOT) and typical questions employers pose are ‘dog on pony’ questions that require ‘dog on pony’ answers.
Take what the above commenters have said into consideration. They’re views are not as short-sighted as you might think. They just see things from the other end of the table.
-Paugh
Ryan, what are the right questions? What is it that brings out your inner desires? The 10 year question is not meant that it is going to be written in the book of like and you have to adhere to it. All we are looking for is a thought process. By the time you graduate college most do have an idea of at least what type of environment they want to work in, if they want to manage people or just manage projects. The 10 year question could be as simple as –I know that I enjoy motivating people and have been told I am very good working with others a team environment. I would like to progress to a position where I would be able to make an impact on others.
If you can’t tell an employer why you think you’d be a good hire, then why should they hire you?
Come on. You may be young, but please, you should know something about your work ethic, education, skills learned, what you’ve learned from previous work and/or internship experience and leadership or other organizational involvment in college. This is what employers really want to hear. You don’t need to know exactly what you want to do.
This is no dog and pony show. This isn’t about BS. They want to know if you’re going to be a good addition to the team. Would you hire someone blindly? Of course not.
As with the ten year question–agreed, it’s not a great question, but still it’s a reality–there is no one set answer. Talk about the skills you want to develop, taking on leadership roles, etc. But you do have to show an interest in the career or job. I mean, if you don’t think you have an interest in them, then why did you apply & why are you interviewing? Something about the job ad or referral must have appealed to you.
If you get hired, it by no means says you have to stay in one career–most don’t. Nor does it mean you have to take the job if offered. What you’re doing is positioning yourself in the marketplace so you can, hopefully, weigh offers and take the job that that excites you the most.
Also, who knows, you might interview with a company you may not know much about, but after interviewing, you may think: damn. I love this place.
This has nothing to do with selling your soul. Get real. If the job/career is not a good fit, move on!
Thank you Tim! Another voice of reason in the wilderness.
@ Ryan Paugh: Not to show my millennial arrogance, but I think my plan is good for everyone, regardless of if someone has a plan in hand or not. If you’re not realizing what value your mistakes and successes bring you, then you are in the back of the pack. My first job was in a completely different field than I’m in now, and I learned a ton that I’m using now. Most jobs are about delivering a quality product and interacting successfully with those around you. Transferable skills. It is almost guaranteed that you will switch jobs every two years and most likely into a different field- we have so many interests, there’s no reason not to pursue them all. As a result, you will need to learn to make your skills easily transferable, which speaks back to my point about framing it correctly. You don’t have to know your life plan, just be a good person. Honesty is always the best policy. (Where do you see yourself in the next 5 years? I see myself making a difference.)
Also, you’re not giving yourself enough credit. You do know what you want in a job. You and Ryan both have written all about it on this blog. Just because you don’t know what field doesn’t matter. That’s the point of trying on different suits, to find the one that fits you best.
Interviewing is like dating.
Let me paint a picture: “Hey sweetheart, I have no idea what value I can offer you and I don’t know what I want to do in life but I think I’m perfect for you!” (as the light reflects with “bling!” off my freshly-brushed pearly whites). Now, if you got game, that line might work. Hell, if you got good game any line would work. Because it’s all about attitude. You got that swagger, son.
But if you don’t got no game, that may be the biggest turnoff ever. Especially for a girl that’s looking for the… ahem… the “M-word”.
Cynthia said it: it is all about the attitude. So if you got the confidence that you can kickass in bed, or in the job your interviewing for, sure – go ahead and say whatever you want. You’ll project that you’ll get the job done through your attitude. But if you aren’t a natural Sinatra, I wouldn’t go spouting off your insecurities to a potential date.
So yes, WE DO HAVE TO SELL OURSELVES. Selling yourself is not selling out. Don’t get them confused. We have to sell our ideas, plans, visions, lamps, apartments, parties and goldfish. To do that, we sell ourselves.
For those of you in professional services, consider this: “Our services don’t win us deals, it’s our relationships and our people that sell work. The services mearly enhance our value proposition.�
So, your “experience� only enhances your value proposition in your interview… YOU are what the employer IS BUYING. Don’t think for a minute that an employer is not BUYING something. They are. They are buying you.
Hi Ryan
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying here, and I found myself nodding my head to a lot of it, but yet there’s also a large element of this that I just don’t agree with - selling yourself to a prospective employer does not have to equal selling yourself out, or even overselling yourself.
First of all, young people may not have a lot of workplace experience but they *do* have lots to sell. (Ever hear of transferrable skills?!) Anyone who thinks they don’t should invest in some proper career advice i.e. more substantial than just “You want to make it in the grownup world? You better figure out what you’re all about and preach it loud” etc. You want to get a job to pay your bills without selling yourself short, well, there’s one of many ways to do it.
The trick is to get an authentic enough balance between your fantasy-land future, what they want to hear and what you do actually know about yourself based on who you are at that particular moment in time (this is where a good life coach/careers advisor/serious self-reflection will help). Because if you don’t, you really will end up in a job you hate in 6 months, and life’s too short to have to get yourself into game mentality that often. And of course this doesn’t mean whatever you say is set in stone forever, or that it has to be based 100% on the cold hard truth as you see it - it’s about aspirations and positive thinking and trying to tell your employer something about your way of looking at life in a language they understand.
So yes, there is always a certain degree of BS about a job interview, simply because there’s a lot of BS about most things in life. A job interview is about as accurate a reflection on your ability to do a job as an exam is a reflection on your intelligence, i.e. not much correlation at all. It’s all about technique and playing the game, and once you understand the gameplan, it’s a cinch. There’s no moral dilemma here either, unless you are downright lying about your experience (another kettle of fish entirely). When you do eventually get a job, you don’t feel compelled to turn 100% honest then and tell your manager what you REALLY think of him, do you? You don’t tell your girlfriend/mother/sister her bum looks fat in her new jeans when she asks you, do you? No of course not, because you’ve opted “in”, and now you just have to make it work for you (and that holds true whether you’re a cublicle worker, self-employed or unemployed)
OF COURSE your employers know all this, yet they still choose this as a way to hire, so don’t feel bad or think that you’re pulling the wool over anybody’s eyes. Remember, your interviewer was sat at your side of the table once too, and do you honestly think he didn’t tell them at least a little of what they wanted to hear? What other method do they have of assessing you? If you’re really that bothered by the whole process, I guess you could always offer to work for free to prove your worth and then who knows, they may not even care how odd and antisocial and unempathic you come across in your interview! (but we know what we think about that route too…)
The only thing generational in all of this is that yes, twentysomethings do tend to want to be more authentic in their working lives and yes, they are also more likely to take a job out of college in the full knowledge that it’s just a stop-gap to pay their bills until something better comes along (either job-wise or inspiration-wise). All these and many other things are different and have changed, it’s true. But don’t confuse this need of ours to be authentic with a refusal to see the need for some basic social conventions either!
Right, that’s longer than I ever intended to be stuck at a computer on a Friday evening. Keep the good stuff coming guys!
Sarah
In many ways, I agree with Rebecca in learning how to package your transferable skills. From my experience, it’s not about selling out, it’s learning how to sell what you’ve got… and also understanding their expectations.
My first job out of college was as a tv news segment producer (my BA is in broadcast journalism), my second was a nightclub manager, my third an alumni magazine editor/writer — three completely different jobs/industries/fields yet I was able to “sell” my skills and tell my story in a way that got me hired. Did I lie in my interviews? I’m sure I did — most people who really, really want a particular job will lie a bit no matter how old they are. However, when I decided I wanted to quit the nightclub and try writing/editing magazines, I spent time researching the industry, and became familiar with the skills and programs I needed to know. I even wrote website articles for free in my spare time just so I could build some of that experience and knowledge that would make me feel confident during interviews. If you really want that job, no matter how qualified or confused you are, there are things you can do and learn to make yourself stand out from the competition.
But seriously, those “ten years from now” or “five years from now” questions are ridiculous and I feel no guilt at all when I give a premeditated textbook answer. They shouldn’t be asked in the first place.
I think one of the problems is the interview process itself. People only have to sell themselves, because interviewers don’t know what they want.
Many people doing interviews don’t know how to do them correctly. They place too much emphasis on subjective impressions than objective facts.
Instead of asking the interviewee open-ended questions, ask them specific fact-based questions. Ask them what they know. Quiz them on their industry and business knowledge. In my area of expertise (computer programming) we quiz our job candidates on programming knowledge. We’ve learned that too many people try to pass themselves off as experts, when they only just read a book. All other career considerations are secondary. If you can find a niche in our company that fits your career aspirations, great! If not, then at least we’ll get some good programming work out of you until you move on.
If interviewers have a specific concrete interview process, then both parties benefit. The interviewer finds out if the person is right for the job. And the interviewee doesn’t have to BS.
It’s a win-win situation.
I think one of the things people aren’t talking about here–and maybe they should be–is the language that’s used when we get this advice. A lot of us were overachievers in college, we worked hard to get what we wanted, and a lot of us probably had some clue as to what our passions were. Then we get out of college and suddenly people are telling us to “sell, sell, sell.” What was it the “Being Good is Not Enough” post said on this site? Something about figuring out how to “brand” ourselves? We’re coming out of an environment where we’re used to being judged on our merits, and then all of a sudden it sounds like everyone’s expecting us to behave like used car salesmen. It’s a huge paradigm shift.
I remember when I was a graduate, being told to “sell, sell, sell” was a HUGE turnoff for me. I was a creative, driven, self-starting individual and would have (I believe) made a fantastic employee in the right company. But I needed to be introduced to sales much more gradually. I think maybe if we could tell young graduates just to tell people an interesting, meaningful story about themselves, one that makes recruiters and interviewers see them as individuals and not part of the applicant pack, it might be received better. It dumps the smarmy salesman mentality and encourages graduates to be creative, honest, and compelling–which is probably what people are trying to get us to do when they give us this advice anyway.
Just my thoughts.
This is something I’ve been thinking a lot about lately. Thanks for bringing it up. Luckily being in school still and interviewing for co-op jobs gives me the flexibility to say, “This is right for me now, but I still haven’t decided what I’m doing after graduation.”
Best of luck, Ryan.
oh my goodness.
am i glad i found this.
it is disappointing to hear that all people thought in this manner when they were younger and then they changed their views and conformed to the status quo…why did the views need to change? why didn’t the situation or the environment change? why are these people now perpetuating a systematic cliche that they themselves once loathed and found utterly pointless?
i know i will have to change my ways a bit and play the game…but i will do it with the intention of changing the game once i’m in…if i can find a place to get in that is…looking for post graduation job number three in a little over a year…non-profit…marketing…now??? publishing/editing i hope…i think my not using capitals will drive them up the wall! but of course i will use capitals for at least a few months before my handwriting once again morphs comfortably back into itself.
oh, and one more thing…20-somethings are not lazy…people in general are lazy…people of all ages. the nonprofit job? 60+hours a week. the marketing job? 55-65 hours a week. both jobs i have to work saturdays. honestly? i don’t care if i don’t get a day off for a month of sundays! i just want a job where i can learn, grow, excell, and maybe be happy…oh yeah, and pay my student loans.
Considering how much bull****(earmuffs) flies between the typical two-faced personality corporate types, selling yourself in a manner to fit into a particular company in an interview is probably what some employers expect and actually look for, unfortunately. I look back on my interviews, and for some of the larger consulting firms out there who brought HR and company reps straight off of the set of “Boiler Room” I didn’t expect to get second or third round interviews because I am not like that and didn’t fake it in the interviews. It rarely happened where the my interests and experience aligned somewhat or largely with what a company had to offer, but my background and experience was good enough to not have to sell out when those opportunities finally came late in my senior year. I’ll admit that the selling out definitely occurs more as desperation kicks in.
If you don’t have experience, you better be prepared to sell out. Save yourself and your integrity, and make strong attempts to get internships. Even if you go a completely different career route from what the internship entailed it will still be semi-professional experience that you can truthfully talk about in an interview when looking for full-time positions your senior year.
Why is it “selling out” to try to sell yourself in a job interview? Presumably you WANT to work at that place, there’s something about it that attracts you, so you have something to say about why you want to be there and how you might contribute to the company/nonprofit/world-changing organization. If you feel you have to lie, lie, lie because you have no real reason to work for/with this employer, then you probably shouldn’t be at the interview in the first place.
super quick question at large…
i never did any internships. i worked my way through college, paid rent, food, fun, whatever, and am addled with debt on top of it. 45 hours a week and class full time does not leave time to devote another 25 hours a week for an unpaid measley 3 credits. plus as a lit major…there weren’t many internships out there that had a thing to do with me.
did this put me at a severe disadvantage? why dont employers recognize that there is part time employment, part time student employment, and full time. internships are unfair for those of us who cannot afford to take one.
and…i do recognize the value placed on the idea of an internship (even if you just got coffee or did data-entry employers love them). but what the heck is one supposed to do once they’ve left college and they never had one?
i have real experience doing real things and interviewers still ask why there are no internships or volunteer work. no volunteer work? oh, sorry. i was working 70 hours a week to help low and moderate income families and get a better governor elected…i didn’t realize volunteering for a week during spring break to build half a house for habitat for humanity was more important. can i get a redo?
Wow, what a great topic, and lots of discussion here, which is all good. I think the last comment I left on this site was about the negative feeling the phrase “paying your dues” has. “Sell yourself” sounds equally negative to me. I’ve participated in many interviews on both sides of the table, and here’s my $.02:
Be yourself. That doesn’t mean spilling your guts. Holding back your wildest dreams is OK. The comments already made about speaking in generalities works just fine.
The “10 year” question is just stupid, as are many in interviews. If you are interviewing for a job writing code, you could say something like, “I like to design and build things more than I like to maintain things, so I’m thinking I’d like to move into engineering (or code design or architecture or ??).” You don’t have a crystal ball and we all don’t know exactly what we want, so don’t feel pressured to have the perfect answer.
Don’t lie. Your ability to put a positive spin on things is invaluable….that doesn’t imply lying.
The more interviews you do, the more comfortable you’ll become with the process. I’ve actually gone to interviews where I knew I wouldn’t get the job….for the practice.
Interviewers are much more interested in you as a person than you think. I want to know WHO I’m hiring. You went through college and you got decent grades, you can probably do the work….but will you get along with the team? Are you creative? A good problem solver? Are you a positive force or a whiner?
Selling yourself means being YOURSELF. You don’t have to bullshit, unless you are full of bullshit and that’s what naturally comes out. The interviewer will smell it. If you are a positive upbeat person, then be that and that’s what the interviewer will see and they’ll love it. If you are excited about the job opportunity, don’t be afraid to say so, and tell them why. If you are in the interview but don’t really want the job, or just need the $$ or whatever, you are in the wrong place.
Great comments from everyone. I wish I was around more when the discussion was real hot, but I was busy with some weekend debauchery at my cousin’s wedding.
Just a few quick thoughts…
I based this post off of a string of others we’ve received after opening the site to guest authors. The gist of these posts was SELL! SELL! SELL! with immediate urgency, have a mission statement, etc. Friggin’ craziness if you ask me! Concentrate on this and I feel as if you lose sight of who you really are.
As some people point out above there’s a way to sell yourself that doesn’t involve selling out. It’s called being honest. Have a good attitude and be yourself, even if that means not having all the answers.
Great advice! I only hope the interviewer makes it that easy. The “10 years” question kills me because who the hell knows? Maybe it’s better to ask what you’d like to accomplish in the next six months or year. I can commit to that and feel like I actually gave an honest response.
This isn’t advice…don’t live your life by my experiences. I have little direction and mucho ADD. Just take it for what it is and know that you don’t need to know your mission in life to make others believe in you. Just show them who you really are.
Good point Dan! I think your point of view would be like a product “selling itself”.
We’ve all heard that term. It applies to products that are so good, so obviously useful, that the salesperson doesn’t have to do much “selling”. He just demonstrates the product.
I think that is what you need to do in interviews and on the job. Demonstrate the product… you!
Because, even if the product sells itself, the salesperson needs to put the product in front of people. But that’s all the selling that is needed.
So if people persist on using the SELL metaphor for career success in the business world, perhaps it should be framed in that manner.