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New here? Employee Evolution is a blog written by Ryan Healy. Ryan is a Co-Founder of Brazen Careerist, the webs #1 social network for young professionals. Ryan speaks with organizations on best practices for recruiting and retaining Generation Y and how to effectively use social media to reach your target market. To contact Ryan, please visit our contact page.
As much as I enjoy the company of my supervisors and consider many of them my friends, we still work in a professional environment and they are a step above me on the food chain. So I watch what comes out of my mouth around higher level co-workers, but it’s just as important for them to watch what they say, too. Here are five things you should never say or do around any young workers who you want to keep around:
“Put your i-Pod away.”
Want to see your young workers jet to a new company after a few months? Tell them they aren’t allowed to listen to their i-Pods in the office. I feel naked without mine. I work out with it, walk with it, attach it to my car stereo and listen to it when I’m working or writing. An old supervisor once told me to put away my i-Pod. I did. Until he left the room!
We all see the stories about small startups and Google’s working environments. These companies are the gold standard for twentysomethings. Employees wear jeans and T-shirts and work from rainbow colored bean bag chairs. If the office I’m at doesn’t even let me listen to an i-Pod, they are obviously behind the times. Who wants to work for a boring, outdated company?
“Pay your dues.”
I understand the logic behind this way of thinking. There’s certainly something to be said for putting in your time and learning the ropes before jumping into a management position, but watch your wording.
Ryan Geist once put it this way: “Don’t tell me to pay my dues. Tell me to sell myself.”
The point is, youngsters are not stupid. We know a few years of grunt work is to be expected, but we don’t like to think of it as “paying dues.” Young workers will respond better if you say something like, “develop your skill set” or “build your brand.” These are two positive ways to imply the same message. “Paying your dues” is not entirely false, but its significance gets lost in translation. It screams negativity.
“Don’t you wish we were on vacation all the time?”
No, actually I don’t wish I was on vacation all the time. I plan to accomplish many things in my short time on this planet. Getting a great tan on a life long vacation is right above swimming with sharks on my to-do list.
If a manager that I plan to replace one day said this to me, I would have more than a few second thoughts. Desiring to be on vacation all the time implies that you don’t like your job and you have little ambition. I don’t want to work for a company that doesn’t keep their employees happy, and I don’t want to work for a manager who has no aspirations.
Leave your thoughts here. (26 responses)
- 1 Pingback on Jul 24th, 2007 at 9:54 am
- 2 Pingback on Nov 11th, 2007 at 8:34 pm
Warning: I’m about to vent.
I’m so tired of hearing how we’ll all change our minds and see the light when we get older, and disavow all the things we say want right now.
Our parents (and grandparents), on the whole, hate their jobs, or have hated their jobs at some point. Having grown up in a world where change is so fast-paced and inevitable (and fairly easy to implement), what makes anyone think that we’d surrender ourselves to the same fate? Why wouldn’t we want to try to create a better siutation for ourselves?
And why would anyone fault us for trying?
“Why would anyone fault us for trying?”
Because they’re jealous that we have a choice…that’s what I believe.
-Paugh
Ryan - Your diss on vacation is noble! If you find a way to sign over your days to me, let me know. I got nothing but love for my Hawaiian shirts, Margaritas and Jimmy Buffett.
Michael,
This is interesting, because I often talk about how my parents advise me based on what they BELIEVE is best for me. Often times, that is very different from what really is best for me. A lot of people, young and old, are able to concentrate much better on a task while listening to music. In fact, I’ve had a number of my Gen Y comrades approach me, frustrated that they couldn’t concentrate on their work because they weren’t allowed to listen to music while working. So again, for many people the ability to listen to music is directly correlated to their productivity, NOT entertainment value.
I like that you focused on performance and results. I agree, performance should be rated and considered in these decisions. In many instances, “the iPod� only becomes an issue with Managers if someone’s performance is lagging. In this case, if the performance issues can clearly be tied to the iPod, then taking it away is the right choice. Otherwise, taking someone’s iPod away without clearly linking it to performance issues is simply punitive. And that won’t go over well.
Other managers perceive a social stigma associated with the inability to audibly communicate with someone listening to an iPod. I think a compromise is needed here. During times when teams are working closely together and there is a high degree of vocal communication, then it is completely acceptable to request that members of the team pocket their iPods. On the other hand, if someone has their head down and is focused on a task, it is ridiculous to ask them not to listen to their music. The only exception to this is if a client makes it perfectly clear that their culture does not accept this behavior. In that case, it becomes a business critical issue and the wants and desires of the “iPodders� must be suspended until the situation changes.
Allow me to provide a (very long-winded) perspective from an “older guy”…
Put Your iPod Away - What the manager is unable to articulate here (because it seems to obvious to him) is that you are part of a team. You are not a disconnected worker on your own little island. If someone needs you / something from you, they should have to find you and tap you on the shoulder to get your attention.
Beyond that, the disconnect is the belief of an older manager that you can’t focus all of your energies / brain / faculties on your work if you’re listening to whatever. Most “youngsters” have never done anything without an iPod in their ears, so it seems odd to ask them to start now.
Keep in mind that your manager is right - you can’t focus all of your attention on your work with your iPod on. However, the task your working on might not take all of your attention.
The best approach here is that you must first prove yourself a good worker and then you can talk to the boss about, “I think I work better with my iPod - can we try it out for awhile and you can evaluate if the quality of my work falls off?”
Again, I know that you’ve lived your life this way, but it is completely foreign to most bosses. Google is the way that it is because it is run by young people. Unless you’re smart enough to work for Google, you need to ease your boss along through compromise.
Pay Your Dues - Actually, better than this or “Sell Yourself” is, “Prove to me that you’re worth investing in.” The manager senses the “Well I’ll just take my ball and leave” attitude. Until the attitude changes, you won’t get anywhere. He isn’t going to give you more chances at getting ahead until you seem (to him) like a dedicated employee.
I don’t mean a slave, I just mean someone who is going to “give it his all” every day at work. Are you getting work done or making excuses? If the boss believes that you’re getting work done and are bringing good work AND a good attitude to the office, you’ll get your shot.
Vacation - I’ve got no idea what this is about, unless he’s trying to feel you out and see what kind of work ethic you have. Otherwise, yes. He needs to go away. Soon.
Jealousy - Trust me when I tell you that almost no manager in your life is jealous of you. That’s just an easy way to deflect behavior that might not make sense.
It’s not that your parents and grandparents haven’t had a choice. It’s just that they figured out that to get ahead, you have to make sacrifices. Sometimes the choice is between working a job you don’t like (and feeding your family) and not working. Often work is more about perseverance than fun.
The same choices will become clearer to you when you have to think beyond yourself in conjunction with your career. I’m not criticizing you because you’re just thinking about yourself (although your boss probably sees that as immaturity).
I’m just saying that you’re at a different stage and what they’re telling you doesn’t apply to your life yet. They don’t see that and neither do you.
Keep in mind that most of what you’re saying here has been said by every incoming group of “youngsters”. That’s why they dismiss what you’re saying: they said it too.
Maybe you’ll make it happen where they didn’t. That would be great. But you have to remember that holding on to the same dismissive attitude that they have towards you won’t make it happen. You’ve got to accept who they are, what their limitations are, and work with that to make it happen for you.
So, go make it happen. Just don’t dismiss, hate, or take revenge on anyone else along the way. That’s how you become your boss.
Dan
“Working a job you don’t like to feed your family vs. not working” That doesn’t seem like much of a choice to me.
I think that’s why I feel so passionate about criticizing these things now. When I have a family, it’s too late. I’ll be stuck persevering for my loved ones instead of enjoying my career.
iPod: I had a pair of those really gorgeous corporate issued headphones that were akin to Princess Leia buns on my head. Working a creative department at my last job, a lot of us worked for long “work blocks” without being interrupted. It’s hard to get a really good flow going for a 30-page brochure if your cubemates are interrupting you. That’s not to say interruptions happen, but headphones are a very polite way to say, “I’m in the zone, leave me alone unless it’s important, thanks!” I could not have lived without Pandora, local radio on the internet, or my (not so vast) CD collection. My mother cannot understand my ability to listen to music while working — she requires complete silence. But a lot of times what she doesn’t understand is that I’m not listening to the music, it’s just providing very pleasant white noise to drown out her demands to help with the dishes.
Vacation: Ryan, while you may not want to be on vacation ALL the time, there’s something to be said for the pure joy of completely switching gears (or turning all of your gears off). You never know when that next brilliant idea might hit you and it certainly can’t hurt if the things hits you while you’re kayaking in the Gulf of Mexico, right? Vacations also don’t have to be weeks of laying on a beach. You can go on a physcially exhausting trip if you’re normally chained to your cube. You could take a road trip to a conference instead of flying and get to see some of this crazy country we live in. You could even go to different cities for a day with your workmates (thanks to Dan Klos & Flight Club for this idea).
“Before I was at the top of the food chain…â€?
I don’t agree. I love hearing these stories. It’s also a great way to relate and bond with the higher ups on the food chain. And many times these stories are funny.
But that’s my take on it.
Daniel,
Thanks for the thoughtful response. If a manager said “Prove to me your worth investing in,” I would completely understand what he meant. The point here is that simply changing the message can go a long way.
The Ipod thing has been covered to death, but I really think there is a fundamental misunderstanding about Ipods. Music helps me focus, it does not distract me.
Also, the point about being at different stages in life is completely valid. We’re young single and for the most part ambitious. Why wait around for challenging, meaningful work, if, by the time we get there, our families are priority number 1? The whole system seems a little backwards to me.
Finally, every older person who comments tells me “they said it too.” I get it, and I believe them. But this does not mean we should stop saying “it.” And more important then saying it, I see many peers “doing it.” Like you say, the hateful, dismissive attitude won’t accomplish anything and most people I know understand that. Hopefully a change can happen.
Thanks for the comment.
-Ryan
Re Mike: The stories about the old days dont bother me as much as the feeling of being talked down to because of rank or title.
I’m amazed that while I started reading blogs to relax for a few minutes of downtime at work, I’m now noticing that they’re negatively affecting my blood pressure …
Regarding “Paying your dues”. It’s just a phrase. While it does seem to have a negative connotation, it pretty much must be done if you are just starting out. This is different from “selling yourself”. You have to have something to sell besides enthusiasm and great ideas. I couldn’t walk into an advertising agency and sell myself and get a top job. Why? I know squat about advertising. Don’t know how the business works, don’t know anyone in the business. On the other hand, I know a lot (from years of experience) about engineering, building and maintaining critical (24/7- no downtime) networks. I’ve paid my dues. It’s called time and experience. It doesn’t mean I worked 60 hour weeks and weekends….I’ve rarely worked over 40 hrs/wk. because if I did have to come in at night for an emergency, I just took time off elsewhere when things were running smoothly. Now I have a solid skillset. NOW I can sell myself, and that’s a very valuable skill when interviewing for new jobs, or trying to move up or get a raise.
Ummm, what’s up with sending us over to PT’s website to read the rest of your article….trying to up her hit count? That’s not an honest hit.
PAY YOUR DUES
In a conversation I had with my father the other day this seemed to be the underlying theme of what was being said. The argument started because my brother’s girlfriend said her parents are not paying for their wedding, as they did not pay for her two sisters in previous years. I told my dad this is a ridiculous way of thinking because times have changed. He began to tell me how people had to struggle to get by, and in their time people weren’t as loose with cash because thats the way it was. He paid his dues for 25 years in the FBI and when we go out to eat, he still thinks appetizers are a waste of money. He has another high-paying job and a nice pension but he doesn’t want to change the way living on a tight budget made him. Either that or he doesn’t know how to. I need my filling so I step up and pay for my own appetizer because if I want something the couple bucks I need to spend is not what I am worried about. He thinks I’m wasteful and I think I’m a pleasure seeker. He doesn’t agree with my decision to go to Los Angeles and leave a steady job which will produce a lucrative salary in years to come. I tell him I’m creative and need to accomplish goals and he thinks I need to take care of financial needs to set myself for the future, for my family, etc. Something I have always heard from my parents is “Live within your means.” I work more than anyone I know between two jobs because its what I have to do for now, but I’m also willing to step into a world of uncertainty because it is what makes life such a beautiful mystery to me. I know what I want to do for the most part but I couldn’t tell you where I’ll be in six months, a year, five years, or ten. Hopefully it’s not under a bridge somewhere but its the fascination of setting out to achieve that drives me. In a developing economy during his years once you had a good job you stuck with it because you knew your checking account wouldn’t bust. Now I need to head out because with technology, there are so many opportunities and we see young people set out to achieve all the time. If I’ve always been a creative standout and enjoyed being that way why would I lay down and make myself a career man? I see no reason to do so. And anyway dad, now that I have a boring job, I can always go back to, you got it, a boring job. In his mind he is 100% right, in mine I am 100%. He may not understand why I’m not willing to pay my dues when the money will be there, but I need to pay dues to the creativity and the passion that drives me to want more. We will never change, although we can debate because somewhere along the lines the picture began to change. I think life is about happiness, and he said he’s happy based on what he has achieved, through a career in the FBI and by raising four sons on one parents’ income. Even if it meant I didn’t know what an appetizer was until I was sixteen.
You are an entitled, clueless little putz. Can’t wait to see you dazzle us with your brilliant career moves. See you on the unemployment line, genius.
Ryan:
A bit of perspective here would serve you well. Your generation was extremely coddled when you were raised. Your generation received lots of individual attention from your parents and group participation was very common. Frequently everyone got tropies because those who raised you didn’t want to create a sense of winners and losers, and the group was always congratulated for a job well done. I’m not claiming this always happened, but I will claim that it happened to a much greater extent than it did in earlier generations.
The result? Your generation has an enormous sense of entitlement and inflated self worth. You don’t know how little experience or knowledge you actually have when you hit the workforce, so you think you should be doing work well beyond that which you’re given. This leads people like you to write the following statements, “We’re young single and for the most part ambitious. Why wait around for challenging, meaningful work, if, by the time we get there, our families are priority number 1? The whole system seems a little backwards to me.” The obvious reason is that you’re generally not skilled and experienced enough to do the most important work properly.
You probably find this attitude offensive, so let me put it in perspective. Assume the typical more senior manager in the workforce is fifteen years older than you. That fifteen years of extra experience has brought an enormous amount of learning, judgement, and work relationships that are vital to work performance. Just think about how much skill you’ve developed in the past fifteen years. Think of someone fifteen years younger than yourself working with or for you to get a sense of the difference. I’ve learned as much working for the past 15 years as I did in all of my years of schooling.
It seems like Google is a popular case study, so I’ll use it here. It was no accident that the venture capitalists who funded Google required an experienced, seasoned, older person run the company.
I’m not saying there are no exceptions to the rule. Clearly in some instances very inexperienced people create very impressive companies. But on average, the difference between a new employee and a seasoned, successful manager is the differnce between a fourth grader and a college graduate.
Were I to hire someone with such a strong sense of entitlement and an overinflated sense of self worth, he or she wouldn’t last long working for me. I’d just fire that person and pick from the 100 others who want the job.
Narcissistic baby boomers, bitter gen-xers, & whiny and naive millenials - looks like all of us have made our postings during the “normal” workday. Could it be that all of us, no matter our age, feel a little too entitled?
Not me; I was too busy working. I made my first comment to this blog this morning before work, which the moderator did not post but vented about. And I’m making another comment after work!
I think it’s natural to want flexibility at the workplace. All of us want freedom and not to be made to feel like we are ‘owned’ by our manager or jobs, regardless of age.
I’m a genxr, and I still hate the ‘corporate-ness’ of work at times. But one thing I don’t see discussed much is how well you actually do while you are at work. If you are actually awesome at your job, a lot of this doesn’t matter — your manager will let you do whatever you want even if you are young most likely. But if you aren’t, then managers can get a little ticked off if you are aren’t doing your job.
But as long as the job is getting done, I don’t care if it happens on a laptop at home.
One thing I REALLY hate about work is that I look very young for my age and work in IT, with much more corporate-minded people. I have a masters degree and do well in my job, and I STILL get talked down to by those older than me who are conventional and can’t deal with a more casually dressed person.
Hello…having a tie does not a good business or IT person make. I’ve met more putzes with ties than young putzs.
Re: Rory Maloney:
I think your father has it wrong about dues paying. ‘Paying Your Dues’ does not mean not having appetizers, being draconian, and generally sticking with one job and making your son feel guilty about wanting a different type of life.
Paying Dues means: if you are in a job, and have just gotten there, or are completely entry level, people aren’t going to give you tasks that are above your level, and that sometimes to get the interesting projects, you have to do some boring ones first. You have to show that you are competent to handle more complex things. But it can also mean (depending on industry) doing a whole lotta grunt work (like copying), just because you are entry level. But that grunt work type of job has nothing to do with you — that’s just the job.
For example, in publishing there are editorial assistants. The entire job is to copy manuscripts and send out letters. Mind-numbingly boring, and most assistants say about a year, and then get a better job (because they’ve paid their dues in the entry level boring job).
for the record, i agree with a supplementary post by RH somewhere in the middle of all the comments. “The stories about the old days dont bother me as much as the feeling of being talked down to because of rank or title.” talked down to bc of rank and/or title is lame, but one must assume that they have earned it and thus earned the right to be a little snide to the ELs…not that it’s right and not that i would enjoy that, but…they’ve apparently done the grunt work and feel a sense of entitlement. what drives me up a wall is when older people refuse to recognize or acknowledge a set of skills as a result of age. “oh my, there is no way you’re 22. with you’re language skills you must be at least 28.” wha??? who says that intellegence, knowledge and articulating oneself well comes with age? but the worst…the WORST ever…is when they think you are dumb bc you’re attractive or not up on the whole corporate thing bc you are female. are there any other females out there who have had this problem? i thought the women’s movement had been trucking forward for YEARS and i thought we had made some headway, but bosses are still trying to sleep with their staff and higher ups are still expecting a certain level of flirtation in order to get what you want. it disgusts me. RH, you need a concise well written article about modern day sexual harrassment and the fact that NOTHING is ever done about it? i’m your girl.
To NDV,
I’m an IT manager, female, and have been in management for a while, although not at a bank/finance/consulting (conventional corporate) type of company.
I am shocked (naively so I’m sure) by your comments that “higherups still expect a certain level of flirtation”….did this happen to you? I have to say that after 10+ years working, I have been lucky enough not to encounter that sort of sexism. Is this still normal?! I’m infuriated.
What I have encountered is the more ‘looking down on me because I’m not male’ and the ‘treating me like a secretary’ syndrome.
One time, a new web marketing manager and I were having our very first meeting (we were on equal levels at the company), and he slapped down a bunch of powerpoint slides on the meeting table and said ‘Could you make some copies of these?’ and I looked at him and said ‘The copier’s out in the hall,’ and sat down and drank my coffee. We didn’t get along well after that, but he ended up getting fired. This sort of stuff happens a lot in the IT sector with men of all ages.
XGirl,
that must have been infuriating, but it sounds like you handed it well.
i quit my last hob due to issues of sexual misconduct. when i told my friends they were horrified that i had quit bc “it happens all over the place, you know that!” their responses saddened me. it’s so not right!
I really like the “build your brand” thought to substitute “pay your dues”. “Build your brand” is so much more empowering–because then I get to think about and decide “gee, what brand to I want to put out in the world?” vs “gosh, who made himself god and decide what the ‘dues’ are going to be?”
But I do want to comment on the paying for the wedding anecdote. There is no automatic entitlement to having one’s parents pay for their daughter’s wedding. What type of brand is the daughter saying she is? “I’m a little girl that has to have everything paid for by my parents” or “I’m an independent women who can pay for her own wedding.” Maybe it was her sense of automatic entitlement that got emotion all wrapped into what can really be a business negotiation (like, Honey, we will provide the flowers and DJ as our wedding present to you, but we don’t have any more money than that.)
I am 55 and I am still paying my dues. I doubt I am the only one–especially those who keep evolving and are self-employed. To me paying my dues means I am willing to work harder than the competition and to over exceed client expectations.
Daniel Sweet and Mike Bonner both strike me as voices of experience, and both do a great job of articulating some of the frustrations of we “older” managers of GenY employees. Among them, as often evidenced by Ryan’s article:
- Many GenY employees take an immediate, reflexive “you’re not the boss of me!” stance when confronted, rather than maturely discussing a problem or a difference of opinion. With regards to wearing an iPod, for example, it may be a good idea to determine the reason for that policy, and to seek compromise. Daniel Sweet points out reasons for the policy that seem entirely reasonable, but that also may have some flexibility.
- At their own risk, many GenY-ers seem to feel from their first day on the job that their employer needs them more than they need their employer. That’s a dangerous position to take, especially in this day and age when “offshore” outsourcing is on the upswing. Everyone believes that they are too talented or their position too specialized to be outsourced … until it happens. And I’ve found that truly irreplaceable talent–not perceived irreplaceable talent that comes from years spent having your self esteem developed regardless of actual merit–is rare.
I don’t mean to discount the fact that most of these communication breakdowns need to be shouldered by the older and supposedly(!) wiser manager. Lots of folks are promoted to management simply because there’s no other way to reward them after a certain point in their careers, rather than because they have any particular affinity for managing people. But building a successful career should be a joint effort that builds on tangible results and accommodates compromise.
I agree with you 100%… and this is just a comment about the iPods… what I’ve been learning about lately is sensory accomodation… the most progressive educators and homeschoolers/unschoolers are realizing how important it is for people to be able to move, feel emotion, and be in a comfortable, supportive sensory environment… music… lighting… freedom of time and movement… this is where learning and that perfect blend of creativity+productivity occur. Schools are starting to get it… but so many businesses are not (just yet)… I have seen companies and even non-profit orgs here in the midwest losing employees, unable to keep employees… but they’re not asking why. The emotional environment (what the manager says and expresses, as well as the physical environment)… its a key to keeping Gen X/Y/Millenial staff happy.